Endin' the Feudin' Between Science and Religion »
Posted by: Spadecaller 7 months ago251 Comments Report this Story
"Those who posit that religion and science are inherently in conflict are two sides of the same counter productive framing of the argument. Those who support religious pluralism, sound science, and science education are natural allies against religious supremacy, Christian nationalism, and crackpot science of the religious right."
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Spadecaller7 months ago
In American politics, clergy and politicians have joined in an unholy marriage, and scientists have been given a seat in the back of the bus.
James Dobson and the other kooks like him must be exposed for what they are: religious fanatics who believe it is their holy mission to dominate the rest of us.
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GHOSTWHOWALKS7 months ago
Aw yes the age old argument. Just as old as the good verse evil. Science and religion should be working together to solve the riddles both try to understand instead of demeaning one, or the other. It'll never happen since religion is a point of view and science to the unending search for the betterment of all mankind. Really is a shame.
Throughout history the battle against science and the oppression of it by various ideologies has never solved one question and as long as there a nuts running around with their patronizing, fanatical views, there is always going to be conflict. Who is right? Who is wrong? How about neither,
since one is about absolutes and the other a matter of personal choice. The argument can't be won.
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sinophil497 months ago
Ghost - Although I agree with the premise of your post, my thesis is that there should not have been an argument in the first place. Science deals with natural phenomena; religion deals with SUPERnatural phenomena.
The very word denotes concepts that are beyond our natural, physical capabilities to observe, quantitfy, or even to verify. Religion is something that you must accept entirely and solely on FAITH - "spiritual acceptance of truth or realities not certified by reason" (Webster).
Science and religion are 2 sides of the same coin; they are both integral parts of human existence. Yet they are on parallel planes and will never come to a mutually acceptable explanation each of the other.
Science is wrong when it claims it can prove the lack of a God or when it denigrates the spirituality of human existence. Religion errs when it claims that (a) God controls every facet of our existence and gives no credence to physical explanations of our universe.
Fanatics ...
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ETproductions7 months ago
Which is wrong? Generally it's one or the other. The pope may be infallible but he was wrong and Galileo was right about the sun being the center of the solar system.
For years science insisted that the atom was the indivisible building block of matter. That turned out to be wrong too. Neither side is always in possession of the truth, but I believe that there always is truth.
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daducha7 months ago
Thanks for sharing. These are good developments. But personally, science does not come in conflict with my faith in my God. I do not go on debates nor heated discussions about why I believe in God and about my faith, I keep it to myself and I do not disagree with other people who have different views. But if they end up this conflict between science and religion, then good.
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1-2-Oscar7 months ago
You might also note that the United Church of Christ is the denomination of which Sen. Barack Obama is a member. Some members here have tried to advance the false image of his church as a "kooky" institution, but it comes across as pretty reasonable here.
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ETproductions7 months ago
I used to attend a United Church of Christ in Santa Barbara, CA. I was raised Presbyterian and have attended other Christian churches as well, and studied comparative religion in college for a time. I didn't find anything at all kooky about that church's beliefs.
I also remember that when I suddenly lost a job and was struggling to keep up, the church took up a collection and gave me the money to pay some major expenses I was facing. I didn't ask anybody to do that. They just did. No other church I have been a part of has ever touched my heart like that. They seemed to take discipleship to Christ seriously.
I put that money back into a rainy-day fund for them once I got a new job. I trust it has by now blessed many more people.
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doggammit7 months ago
But here on this thread spade is actually endorsing the United Church of God - a Christian delegation, whether fundamentalism wants to accept that or not. Who died and made Pat Robertson pope?
Your comment barely dignifies a response and you - misshapen thing that you are, may be found exactly where we generally find you - in contempt of empirical truth.
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rdy2rck7 months ago
My Church is called "THE VINEYARD." We're non denominational and our philoshophy is "come as you are."As Christians we believe that Jesus didn't try to cram his beliefs down anyones throats.He OFFERED himself to humanity.
We do promote Christianity TO THOSE WHO ASK.One example of many is we set up car washes and give them 5 dollars. If they ask why we just say we try to follow in Jesus' footsteps. That's our "evangelism."
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cowboygrandpa7 months ago
rdy2rck:
Thats good.
I've found that I can be more effective in a one on one approach. I've been driving home from work and see a poor homeless person on a cold night. I'll stop and give him one of the coats I get for such occasions. I always carry extras in my car. I just tell them it's not much but the Lord put me here in this place so you could have this jacket from him. In the name of Christ it is given to you.
Or I'll give them money for food. Now some may say I'm giving to the dregs of society. Others will say they will only use it for drugs or alcohol. The money is given in the name of Christ and I have faith in him. Christ said when you give to the least you have given to him.
My last church I attended used to have a food bank. Which we gave to. But it was only used for those in the church. That's OK I guess, but what about those wanting to know he goodness of Christ and being rejected?
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annoDomini7 months ago
I try to bring the people I meet who are in need to a place where they can get food (usually a local restaurant or deli).
My church also has a food bank, but we empty it entirely on the 3rd Saturday every month for needy families in our area who are generally not families in our church.
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rdy2rck7 months ago
Good for you cowboy.You are truly blessed.Inscribed on our church is "Small things done with great Love will change the World."-Mother Teresa.We have a food pantry also, serve 3200 families a month for ANYONE in need.We also encourage individual actions like you do and hopefully they do a small thing and it carries on.
If people are to begin following Christ, we believe you have to follow in his footsteps.He was an all inclusive person. He rejected no one.
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david_nwpa7 months ago
That is the same philosophy as the Florida Keys and Louisiana. Come as you are, leave different. It has clearly helped their tourism departments. I suspect it has done well for the church. Here is a thought. What if people accept that it is important to love one another without the coercion of religion? Is that all that bad?
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texangelwings7 months ago
Faith can not be force fed to another human being. Science is still trying to understand God's creations. Humankind is always growing and learning something new!
We are all created by God and we are His children! I think that science and religion should work hand in hand to make life better for us all!
Thanks Spadecaller, good article!
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AtheismIsRealityComment removed: User banned.7 Replies
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not2needy7 months ago
Science is amazing, i have always been intrigued with it.
That said, science has never interfered with my faith and belief in God.
It's all about perspectives.
Thanks spade.
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Sock_Puppet7 months ago
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, and in some ways one supports the other. But any religion that seeks to dominate and control the world is just wrong.
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ameliog7 months ago
We are often trapped by the frame that we're told to exist within. If science and religion are two separate things, then they must be in opposition. I reject that frame. If both the spiritual and physical realities exist, then they should ultimately harmonize.
Obviously, people who don't believe in a spiritual element will sit firmly on science's side because there is nothing else to them that is believable. They aren't necessarily antagonistic toward the spiritual belief so much as they see it as an equation that doesn't add up, like 1 plus 1 equals 7, so it's dismissed without prejudice.
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Spadecaller7 months ago
About Christian nationalism according to the author of the article:
"But the Christian nationalist narrative has a fatal flaw: it is based on revisionist history that does not stand up under scrutiny. The bad news is that to true believers, it does not have to stand up to the facts of history to be a powerful and animating part of the once and future Christian nation. Indeed, through a growing cottage industry of Christian revisionist books and lectures now dominating the curricula of home schools and many private Christian academies, Christian nationalism becomes a central feature of the political identity of children growing up in the movement. The contest for control of the narrative of American history is well underway."
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ameliog7 months ago
People of faith should not promote their agendas primarily on the assumption their creator is sanctioning their activities. They might be operating just off of head knowledge. Does this further the finest ideals of the faith or does it primarily satisfy egos and perpetuate conflict? We each must answer for ourselves. Reminds me of the wise words "check yourself before you wreck yourself!" :)
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Endoscopy7 months ago
You mean things like "Thou shalt not commit murder"? We should not operate on things like that. Think through what you are saying or find out what the faith based people promote first. There is the sermon on the mount, The 10 Commandments, etc. What part of that should not be on the agenda of faith based people.
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rdy2rck7 months ago
You are so correct SC.While taking on an anti-semite earlier he said I was no Christian, "At least the American Heritage Kind."I know what he meant(hatred,intolerance etc.) but a new "brand" of Christianity supports your statement above.
And I won't tell you who the anti-semite was.LOL
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hyperbola7 months ago
All you show with that comment is that ignorance is dangerous, even if you hope it is coupled with "good christianity".
As a christian can you support the ethnic cleansing of over 7 million christians and moslems? In what way do you think that is christian?
Forced Migration Review
Refugee Studies Centre
Department of International Development
University of Oxford
Palestinian displacement: a case apart?
The great majority of the seven million Palestinian refugees still live within 100km of the borders of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip where their homes of origin are located. They are refugees because Israel â;; committed to a permanent Jewish majority and granting citizenship to any member of the Jewish diaspora â;; denies Palestinians their basic human right to return to their homes of origin. Palestinians are the world's largest refugee population, yet ...
http://www.fmreview.org/FMRpdfs/FMR26/FMR26full...
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Endoscopy7 months ago
The problem with that viewpoint Spadecaller is that the liberals have created their own books first. If we go back to the books of the 19th century the viewpoint is much different than the liberal books of today. Of course we must turn a blind eye to that correct? We must only take what the current liberal teachings are as being right.
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Dicax_Maximus7 months ago
As an agnostic, even I find it incredible that so many "religious" people have a problem with science...
To me, it's very simple (taking the christian faith as an example). "God" created the earth in 6 Days.... Someone want to state (and either prove or disprove) that "His Day" didn't equal 800 million years (give or take a few), which would roughly match with science ??
Having never spoken to the Deity myself, I'll accept that his version of "Day" versus ours may just differ......
Why is this so hard for some to comprehend ???
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Dicax_Maximus7 months ago
Excellent song, must check the lyrics.....
I have no belief in an "all seing all knowing" deity, BUT, I do believe that there are beings "out there" who may (to our VERY young race - in stellar terms -) exist....
Just take a look at the advances in technology in the last 200 years ? Now at the advances (OK, I've sometimes queried whether we have actually advanced, but that's for another thread), in morality, civilisation......
Now add (if we don't destroy ourselves first) a few thousand years......
One wonders......
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ameliog7 months ago
I agree with your puzzlement Dicax. The news coming from the area of quantum physics strengthens my belief.
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Radiofreeeuropa7 months ago
The bone of contention however remains. There is absolutely nothing in any science that would suggest that a God as described in any of the Abrahamic religions exists. Sorry.
If taken as metaphor, there are possibilities. Is God a word that represents the creative energies glimpsed through the fabric of the universe? Or some bearded thunderer who micromanages your personal affairs? If you believe the latter, I would say I'm sorry for your very limited view of the cosmos. At the root of most simplistic self righteous literal theologies is man's desire to shirk his own responsibility for his own life. God did it. God willed it. God made it happen. Is there implied order to the universe?
yes. Does it suggest intelligence? Maybe. Subscribing to any dogma that embraces the literal truth or "holy origin" of writings of men is quite dubious. People believe this stuff out of selfishness, it makes them feel good. It's mental masturbation.
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