Religion – This week's devotional is about sin in the life of a Christian and the need for Christians to pray for each other.
I am very surprised when you say you have never written anything of this sort, because your work seems to be the fruit of a long practise and in a quite good understandable English, without any mistake...It's always with huge pleasure that I am waiting for your Devotional every Sunday and maybe more now I know you are currently a Baptist!
Thanks Brett!
Brett, that was a wonder prayer! God did guide you to share your testimony of your belief and trust in our Lord.
I pray that everyone finds the peace that exists in knowing the Lord. One of my Aunt's prayed for over 40 years that her husband would come to know the Lord personally, her prayers were answer. My Uncle found his way to the Lord and is a Christian.
Thank you Brett!
I am always wish to know why a Christian would say "I am a sinner" and then proceed to say, "we are all sinners." Upon on what basis does one say that?
Define your terms: Christian and Sinner.
Christian: a follower of Christ. Sinner: one who commits sins. "5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
1 John 1:5-2:2 (NKJV)
Redneck, I appreciate your comments, and certainly a Christian should not sin. Unfortunately, we still make mistakes, and we can still be tempted. I know I am, as I mentioned in the blog. The quote above is just one instance I have come across that talks about Christians sinning.
If I didn't sin, I'd never have to make another confession, but I'm just not that good of a person. If anyone here is, I would be glad to hear from them. That would truly be a Christ-like person, a saint on Earth.
I believe that life is a time of constant spiritual development that extends past our first realization that Christ was crucified for our sins so that we could be forgiven. I believe that a relationship with God is one that should continue to grow, and that when a Christian does something wrong, he or she should ask the Lord for forgiveness. I believe that repentance is a lifelong process, and that repentance and good works are evidence of a person's faith.
Brett,
Just provoking you in Love. A Christian is more than a follower of Christ. He was an unbeliever in the world without a covenant with God. Paul says we are now New Creatures or a New Creation IN CHRIST. The old nature has been replaced with a new spirit and the Holy Spirit dwells within. This is the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah and Ezekeil. See: II Cor. 5:17-21
The question then arises how can a person be a New Creature and still be an old creature or an "old sinner?" Paul addressed the Corinthian church with all the sin being practiced and overlooked among them as "saints." Paul taught that one is either In Christ or In Adam. New DNA if you will. A "sinner" is one whose nature has not been changed. That is the problem with religion. It cannot change the nature, only dress up the outside. But once the nature has been changed the label should also change. God changed Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, etc.
Con't.
Con't.
I agree with asking forgiveness when one fails to obey the new nature and sins. The Apostle John is correct. However he also says we are children of God and in that same epistle says the one born of God does not sin but keeps himself from sin. "Sinners" cannot keep from sinning. It is their nature
He who is without sin is perfect! There has only been one perfect man, the Lord, Jesus Christ.
Imho, Christians do commit sin, although it should be the exception for us and not the rule. The difference is that we can now go directly to God to confess our sins and receive forgiveness and mercy through the purifying blood of Christ, who died to pay for the sins for all believers, once and for all.
As I see it, if Christians no longer sin, there would be no need to go to God in prayer, asking for forgiveness and renewing of a right spirit within us. I prefer to say that there are two classifications of sinners: saved and unsaved. The former are believers who are contrite and desirous of overcoming their sin or desire to sin, the latter are non-believers who have no conscience concerning sin, nor do they desire to change or to seek forgiveness for them.
In this medium and forum one cannot go into great depth but I point out that you have quoted or cited OT passages which applied to them but are not cited in the NT by Paul or the other apostles.
David asked the Lord to renew a right spirit within him. We have both a new spirit and the Holy Spirit. We may change our attitude (spirit) but God has done the other for us.
The issue is how do we see ourselves? Are we "forgiven sinners" or New Creatures? A preacheronce said, "You may as well resign yourselves to the fact: before the week is out you will commit some sin. Christ has died for all your sins past and future." That is poor theology. And it teaches resignation to a sin pattern rather than faith notto sin. Paul qoutes the OT saying "the just shall live by faith." If we see ourselves as forgiven sinners and expect to sin each week then we are expressing more faith in the power of sin than in the Resurrection Life of Christ in us.
There are new testament scriptures pointing to the fact that Christians are not only capable but culpable of committing sin! One such passage that comes to mind (and this is a paraphrase because I do not have the scripture readily at hand now) is "Be ye not conformed to the things of this world, but transformed by the renewing of your minds..." To me, this indicates that Christians are not only tempted by the things of this world, but sometimes yield to those temptations, therefore, we have to be reminded to stay focused on Godly things by the "renewing" of our minds.
Also, Paul's letters to the Corinthians and Ephesians often pointed to areas of sin in their lives that needed to be addressed and corrected. He was admonishing saints of the church!
Please do not think that I am encouraging or condoning sin among Christians. I am simply saying that Christians do on occasion sin because we are not perfect but daily being perfected through the grace of God.
No arguement!! What I am saying is that a Christian can both choose not to sin and has the Divine Power available to not sin. But people generally do what they believe is expected and some Christians expect to sin. They act as if they are merely forgiven sinners instead of changed men. Paul wrote to the Corinthians and said they were acting as "mere unchanged men" indicating they were not living as God was empowering them to live: as men whose nature had been changed by the Resurrection Life of God.
We have passed from death to Life, from darkness to Light, from hatred and strife to the Love and Peace of God ruling in our hearts. Paul admonished the church to live as New Creatures for whom all old things had passed, even the old nature, and live as ones Led by the Holy Spirit and Ruled by the Law of God written on their hearts and the Peace of God dwelling within them. II Cor. 5:17; Col. 3:15; I John 2:20, 27; John 14:27; Romans 5:5.
Blessings
I can certainly see that your comments are made in love, and I thank you for them. It seems that a large part of our disagreement stems from our differing usage of the terminology. Clearly, though, we agree that Christians do still sin, and regardless of how either of us wants to label a Christian who does sin, we also agree that our sins are forgiven through the blood of Christ. That's really the key. Thanks for a thought-provoking discussion, Redneck.
I'm sorry, I didn't get the rest of that passage copied. Here is 1 John 2:1-2 "1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."
I will add a passage to the discussion.
Found at: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 5:8-10;&version=45; A great place online to research the Bible and find the verse one is looking for. :-)
Romans 5:8-10 (Amplified Bible)
8 But God shows and clearly proves His [own] love for us by the fact that while we were still sinners, Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One) died for us.
9 Therefore, since we are now justified (acquitted, made righteous, and brought into right relationship with God) by Christ's blood, how much more [certain is it that] we shall be saved by Him from the indignation and wrath of God.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, it is much more [certain], now that we are reconciled, that we shall be saved (daily delivered from sin's dominion) through His [resurrection] life.
The phrase "it is much more certain, NOW..."
Note the progression:
Verse 8 while we were sinners
Verse 9 we are now justified and made righteous
Verse 19 we were reconciled... we shall be saved (daily delivered from sin's dominion) through His resurrection life.
Honestly, Redneck, I'm not sure of the best way to respond to the passage you've mentioned from Romans. I can only repeat what I've mentioned before, which is that if Christians sin, they should ask for forgiveness.
It is okay. I just think Christians should think. While we were sinners Christ died for us. "NOW we are justfied" means we are no longer looked upon by God as sinners but as His Children and righteous. If He saved us while we were enemies of God HOW MUCH MORE shall He empower us to refrain from sin NOW that we have His very nature within us. Sin is a dominion or a power over a person demanding they do as directed. Sin is DEATH in action. But Resurrection Life overcomes death and frees us from the power of sin.
WE do not need be overpowered on a daily basis by sin. We have His Resurrection Life to keep us. That what Paul taught in Romans. He would therefore never refer to you as a "siiner". He might say you are carnal, living below your privileges and not yeilding to the Holy Spirit but never a "sinner." Praise God we can be daily delivered from the power of sin if we believe we can and act upon it.
Blessingsw In Christ,
Redneck
Very well stated, Redneck. Certainly, once we become Christians and have the Holy Spirit within us, we are not slaves to sin. So, in the sense to which you're referring, I can see your point very clearly. It's good that you asked for my definition of sinner, because this is definitely just a case of our differing uses of the word "sinner."
Blessings to you as well.
I think that what those passages are saying is that we were once unrepentant, unbelieving sinners, but once we accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, we became justified and righteous (covered) by His blood, so that even though we may sin, we are only seen as righteous in God's sight because of the blood of Jesus which constantly cleanses and purifies us.
Any born again Christian, imho, is a new creature in Christ, meaning that he no longer has a willful desire to sin, but not that he will never commit a sin again once he has been saved. He is not sin free, imho, but he is free of sin's consequences!
The very fact that Christ had to come in physical form and pay the debt for all mankind's sins indicates to me that, believers notwithstanding, man will never be totally free from the scourge of sin until that moment when Christ returns for us and we are changed from flesh to spirit, in an instant!
Read Jeremiah 3:31-34 But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put My law within them, and on their hearts will I write it; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 34 And they will no more teach each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for they will all know Me [recognize, understand, and be acquainted with Me], from the least of them to the greatest, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will [seriously] remember their sin no more.
Ezekeil 36:24-29 26 A new heart will I give you and a new spirit will I put within you, and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you shall heed My ordinances and do them.
Result: a complete change of nature with the Law of God written on the heart; Born Again of the Spirit.
Con't. This is more than "being free of sin's consequences". It is being able to not sin and being free of the dominion of sin. If one's nature is changed then the desires and actions are also changed. The problem then is one of the mind and habit pattern. Romans 12:1-2 Submit to God for the complete renewing of the mind to the will and purpose AND the Word of God.
If sin is anything incompatible with the nature, purpose & intent of God man can never be "free of sin" even in the afterlife because one would then be God. In that definition no person would ever be free of "sin". But God covers our incompatibility by His mercy and Grace. He never intended us to BE GOD. But to willfully commit sin in hostility to God as a pattern of life is to be a "sinner" and not a New Covenant person with the Law of God written in the inward nature. Believers are NOT by that definition "sinners".
If you will notice, is a Jeremiah is a prophet and he was speaking of a future covenant that would be made with Israel (and all believers), and that covenant is yet to be made. We are living under the new covenant as it pertains to Christ, the living Son of God having died on the cross for the remission of our sins. That covenant removed from us the burden of the law, which we could never completely conform to because, again, we are flesh and unable not to sin against the law. Again, because the law was perfect, but we are not.
The final covenant, which is to come, will be when Christ returns and we are transformed completely into spiritual beings with the same heart and mind of our Creator. We will no longer even be tempted to sin or capable of it, because all of our thoughts will be perfectly in line with His.
The New Covenant Jeremiah and Ezekiel spoke of is in place now. These passages describe the New Birth. The book of Hebrews teaches us that Jesus has established the New Covenant and quotes these passages in support. Hebrews 9:7-13 There will not be a third covenant with men while sin abides on the earth.
ALL Bible scholars teach that Jesus fulfilled the establishment of the New Covenant.
2 Corinthians 6:16 Quotes Jeremiah:
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2 Corinthians 6:15-17
That's a truthful post. I get you on the Bible thing. I completely agree with you on the need to pray for one another. Thank you.
God bless you, too. :)
Thank you. I really felt that I needed to be truthful about myself. I think that people have to know that even though I am a Christian and I like to share my faith, I still have struggles and I still stumble.
And that is a very brave and admirable thing! I am certain that God instructed his followers not to forsake the gathering of the saints because He understood that we will continue to struggle and stride with our flesh, and that we would need to borrow strength from each other from time to time, in order not to stumble, or in order to regain our footing if we do.
One correction about this passage. It is not the resurrection we celebrate today, but Pentecost which is the Church's Birthday-- the descent of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles allowing them to speak to different people of different tounges and being understood by all.
Well, I'm not well-versed on the actual history of Christians using Sunday as the day of rest and worship, rather than the Jewish Sabbath of Saturday. I'd been told that it was because of the resurrection of Christ on Sunday, but your explanation makes sense as well. Thank you for the input.
Edit: Here's one site about it. I mainly just read the part about Sunday worship, which you have to scroll down to read. Anyway, I think perhaps we both are correct, because it seems that Sunday worship stems from a variety of occurrences in the Bible, including Pentecost and the resurrection.
Not a member? Sign-up today!
suzanemichel
cptnkrk
CrawfordBizDev
daviant701973
maneetion
elliotthicks1965
shawnmartinez1960
2jojoyo
harleyb761960
sinusk
vinatamayo
redLineRunner
cushi
not2needy
alamala
lins_lis
L8again
saltyveruca
sarmatt
webbua
JustSayHi
satansatan
livia1954
jomarjarmo
kibasilasa
imigran
Nixie
CoolCrazyStuff
lawrencee
keroro13
justsay0pe
purpose
andytor
mannatech
j
55)
Amen and very true.
"I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus for it is the word of God."-Romans
Have a blessed day everyone.
It always comes back to not being ashamed, doesn't it, rdy2rck? Thanks for that quote.
You see, we're not all Bible scholars. I knew it came from Romans and just popped in my head:)
Yeah, stuff like that is what's been happening with me lately. It's amazing how things in the back of my mind suddenly surface when I need them; things that I might have not given much thought to when I first read them.
That is one of the greatest benefits of reading the Word and studying it. It slowly but surely becomes written not just in our minds, but in our hearts. At times when we need to recall them, how delightful and surprising it is to find ourselves doing so!
As for sinning, we all do in one way or another, and often in numerous ways. Some sins we are well aware of, others, totally oblivious to, but sin we do! That is why God dispenses an endless supply of mercy and grace to us as long as we confess the ones we know about, ask forgiveness, and make a genuine effort not to commit the acknowledged sin again. Sometimes we are successful, sometimes not. Since we are in the flesh, we are at war with our flesh. We will sometimes lose a battle. That is why the Bible says that a righteous man falls, but he gets back up and tries again. We can't reach perfection in this life, but it is our duty to sincerely strive toward it. In this, we must encourage one another.
Yes, that is exactly how I feel about sin, and it's good to know that others share this outlook on it. Thanks for your observations.
You put it great about the heart cushi.I've had brain damage that's stable but some days I don't remember what I've studied as well but the evil one can never steal what's in your heart(:). It's the spirit not the letter and I agree about sin.
But I admit I would like to remember the letter better at times.
Thanks Brett, and Rdy2rck, you too! Brett, this is a very nice oasis you provide every week. Go where He leads and it can be amazing...
Thanks for the quote but it reads:
Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."
The Gospel is the Word of God but Paul says it is "the Power of God unto Salvation to all who believes."
Thanks for the exact quote red.