The Wars of Religion Return (by Pat Buchanan) »
Posted by: SonOfTheMask 1 month, 2 weeks ago105 Comments Report this Story
Last week's clash between Dr. James Dobson and Barack Obama is but the latest skirmish in a war that dates back to the time of Christ. At issue: What is Christian truth? Does the true Christian put social peace ahead of his duty to make God's Law man's law?
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Comments So Far: 105
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Candida1 month, 2 weeks ago
No, anybody who finds something evil in society, whether it is abortions or war, should protest it. As long as that protest is peaceful and within the law, nobody should object.
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ind061 month, 2 weeks ago
I guess that depends on a person's definition of "manifest evil".
If you asked ME to give an example of manifestly evil behavior I'd think of the death camps, of Nazis drowning prisoners in buckets of human waste and laughing while they did it. I'd think of serial killers raping and murdering women and children because they can't get off any other way. This, to me, is manifest, or, plainly seen EVIL.
To Pat manifest EVIL is two guys saying "I love you so much being with someone else would be nothing but a misery. I want to publicly declare my love for you above all others and live with you until the day I die."
I think we are seeing evil very differently, Pat and I.
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donotdoubt1 month, 1 week ago
If you asked ME to give an example of manifestly evil behavior I'd think of the death camps, of Nazis drowning prisoners in buckets of human waste and laughing while they did it. I'd think of serial killers raping and murdering women and children because they can't get off any other way. This, to me, is manifest, or, plainly seen EVIL.
You seem to associate "manifest evil" with senseless killing, so let me add one - abortion!
I believe this is in alignment with the article.
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SonOfTheMask1 month, 2 weeks ago
FTA: "The unbridgeable divide between the two portends a troubled future. Can Americans ever come together if we are divided in our deepest beliefs about morality and truth, where one side believes gay marriage is moral progress, the other holds it a moral outrage; where one side views abortion to be a mighty advance for women's freedom, the other sees it as legalization of mass slaughter of unborn babies?"
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aniokly1 month, 2 weeks ago
Americans may falter in their individual beliefs about abortion, and gay marriage, but in the end we will still be a Country that believes in traditional marriage, and we are still a country against gay marriage. And Obama is still not the new Messiah.
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HmacComment removed: User banned.16 Replies
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ranchhand1 month, 2 weeks ago
Now tkychncs, Why you picking on that little lady? She does have a right to her own beliefs. She ain't as tolerant and understanding as I am when it comes to y'all queer peoples. And BTW I am home with my grand kids watching a parade and see them gay people in them speedos shakin their bootie. Parades like them shouldn't be on TV when little kids could see such crap. Never thought I would see the day when people could get jailed for smoking a cigarette on public property, yet a human being could go nearly naked down main street.
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ranchhand1 month, 2 weeks ago
Obama is trying so hard to bring Christians into his lair. But what he doesn't understand is that his stand on abortion and the killing of babies,( to let them die) that have been aborted yet lived are against what God has taught. Murder is murder regardless of how you want to camouflage it. And I can not forget what the teaching of the bible state and what I believe to be the living word of God. Dobson has stated that Obama is in eeror. That the statment of Obama "that you don't have to be a Christian or believe in Jesus to get to Heaven". Dobson is right Obama is wrong.
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ranchhand1 month, 2 weeks ago
We are talking about abortion. Example: How about fill a woman"s belly up with salt water so that they strangle and suffocate that is murder. Or how about cutting them out piece by piece that is murder. How about an abortion that the baby comes out crying an its not given help to live, that's murder.
If you want to call it war, maybe it is adults against babies wonder which one God will avenge? I sure hope you know that answer.
I have a niece that was a 5 1/2 month preemie she now has three grown children and her first grand baby on the way.
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Wolfie20071 month, 2 weeks ago
Actually, Hmac "the winds of change are blowing"? Abortion is becoming less and less acceptable to Americans. When it comes to "gay marriage" there has been no change in their opinion and they overwhelming say "no". There is also nothing new in the way the issue is being pushed to the federal courts to make it a law by fiat, ala, Roe vs. Wade.
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canadianrancher571 month, 2 weeks ago
The problem I have with stories like this one that people like Mr. Dobson has a group of followers who support him and his beliefs and he feels that his interpretation of the bible is the right. and Barack Obama is running for pres and he thinks that his ideas are right. It does not matter whether you practice an organized religion or just have beliefs it comes down to your understanding of the scriptures.
When it comes to politics and religion the candidates should have to answer three questions that I consider important. 1) Do you believe in abortion, 2) Do you believe in capital punishment, 3) what conditions do you believe should happen before our country goes to war.
I feel that a honest answer to these questions would give a person an idea on how the candidate felt about life, law and order, and the saftey of the nation. The answers to these questions might give us a view of the persons beliefs and maybe we would get some people who were responsible enough to be leaders.
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sailr1 month, 2 weeks ago
The problem is the fanatical right evangelicals which Dobson represents have supported Bush the murderer in the white house although he is responsible for killing hundreds of thousands in the Middle East including almost 5,000 of our bravest and finest.
Just the fact alone that they have supported the neocons makes them repugnant in my opinion. Jesus would definitely not approve of them!
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Endoscopy1 month, 1 week ago
This is where you get out the Bible and see who is telling the truth. There are areas that are confusing but most of it is rather clear. The topics that Dr. Dobson talked about are very clear. Read it for yourself. When quoting it you should do your homework and look at other texts that have to do with the same subject.
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Endoscopy1 month, 2 weeks ago
There has been a method of separating the Christian from the non Christian who calls themselves one. The Creeds are designed to separate the wheat from the chaff.
They allow a lot of leeway in a lot of looking at the Bible. That has caused splits in the Church going back to Armenians and also the Great Schism. However they cover the essentials of the faith. Who and what Jesus did and why.
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tkyrchncs1 month, 2 weeks ago
Our government is secular. Our laws involve ETHICS derived from the principles of freedom to the limit of physical or financial harm to others. Your morality is your own business, and there is no religious test to hold any office in the United states. Our government, having no creed, is AMORAL. It needs to remain that way, and I feel even more strongly about any person trying to turn his religion into the law of the Nation that many here feel about homosexuality. I will resist any such attempts at the level necessary to prevent their success.
There is NO Christian duty to make man's laws conform to God's. Our Savior gave us but two commandments, and they have NOTHING to do with any government or with any prohibitions of any sort; they both command direct, positive, PERSONAL and SPIRITUAL action.
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SonOfTheMask1 month, 2 weeks ago
We must use the term "moral" differently. Morality is synonymous to ethics. In fact, I think ethics is often defined as either the study of morality or a set of moral codes. So, there can be a religious moral code and a societal moral code, I think. I completely disagree that our government should be amoral (now, some might argue that certain governments have been amoral, but whether it SHOULD be amoral is a different question).
I think the definitional ambiguity of the term "morality" often brings unnecessary conflict to discussions like these. I absolutely believe that our government should be moral...but not a morality defined by a particular religion's creedal statements.
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tkyrchncs1 month, 2 weeks ago
Some distinguish ethics, what is right or wrong based on reason, from morals, what is considered right or wrong behavior based on social custom. That is the distinction I intended. In many cases these overlap: theft, murder, etc. In many cases they do not. Therefore the above stated ETHICAL limit on behavior to that which causes physical damage or financial loss to others. Behavior which violates social custom (including dominant religious belief) should remain outside consideration of the law if it causes no physical or financial harm.
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tkyrchncs1 month, 1 week ago
What you say of ethics and morals is only the current usage among Christians. There are many ethical philosophies that involve NO religion, whereas most religions prescribe a moral code involving all sorts of things that have nothing whatever to do with relations with your fellows, which is all secular government has any legitimate interest in.
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Endoscopy1 month, 1 week ago
The founding fathers of this country have a slight disagreement with you. This has been a Christian nation long before we were independent. Christian ethics were understood to be needed in this country if our form of government was to stand. They felt that if we went away from Christianity then the government would eventually fail. The reason being is that is expected that the large majority would live up to the Christian ethic. Without that crime would rise and the people who would not be criminals would have no base to their ethics. Therefore what is right for one is wrong for another. You are seeing this today with situation ethics. People are suing over trivialities. A lot of people are out for what they can get ethical or not. This burdens the government to make more and more laws and the end result is very unwieldy. We are seeing this more and more.
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sailr1 month, 2 weeks ago
You see what religious fanaticism has brought to the world of Islam...yet you want the same thing here with the fanatical religous right wing evangelicals. They and their ilk should not be given any credence in any intelligent discussion nor should they be allowed anywhere near any government policy!
KEEP RELIGION OUT OF POLITICS! Separation of church and state!
I don't go to your church and tell you how to run it and you should not go to my government and tell them how to run it. Keep your brainless little flock in fear and milk them for their hard earned dollars. THAT is what you are really good at. KEEP IT IN YOUR CHURCH. I don't need or want to hear about it.
I was raised in the fire and brimstone evangelical Baptist church. As soon as I could, I ran like hell!
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Itachirumon1 month, 2 weeks ago
Thank God you did, we're glad to see you escaped... I'd just like to see the first person you told that sailr
"Oooohh....You're from a Baptist family?..... Well then here, this is a science book from a nonreligious high school, this stuff around us that they told you was Angelic Aura? It's called "Gravity".... here.... You probably have a lot to say so I'll go get you a keyboard? Oh I'm sorry, writing paper... You wouldn't know a computer yet huh"
And btw just in case you think I'm insulting you? I'm not.
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Itachirumon1 month, 2 weeks ago
And Ranch, it was funny how hell was the third thing YOU said? Seee? HAHAHAHA funny! FUNNY STUFF
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